Annotations
Annotations to Torn & Frayed's post on the suitability of democracy for Southeast Asia:
Indeed, this is exactly what we want for the Philippines and what we think is what the country badly needs.
So you're talking about restricting the franchise, eh? And not just basing it on some form of qualification, but making it proportional to what you perceive is the voter's passion on a particular issue. So, for example, if I were prepared to die for, say, (choose any silly or not-so-silly issue to put here) and everyone else is lukewarm against it, my vote would count far more than ten of theirs? By your logic, die-hard communists would have more rights to see their views through than the numerically superior but lukewarm bourgeoisie. By the same token, a enraged middle class up in arms against Estrada had more weight than the hordes of unwashed masses supporting him. Oh wait, that was what I've been arguing all along. Yeah. Thank you for proving my point :)
And how the hell do we pro-ad people participate? By staging mass rallies and demonstrations? Please, we've already decried the opposition doing that. It would be hypocritical of us to inconvenience you in turn. Besides, unless one lives in Cuba or North Korea, one does not go to rallies and demonstrations to display support for a sitting administration. In western democracies, I think, one would read the papers and just keep a stiff upper lip. And when elections come, vote to keep the current dispensation in power. That is the time-honored way for the majority to participate.
Amen.
Annotation to cvj's comment in mlq3's blog:
Indeed, I totally agree with everything you said. Just a few things I'd like to add. First is, what's good for the middle class is good for the country. Yeah. That's right. Let that sink in. We don't want a larger share of the pie. What we want is a bigger pie for all. And a bigger middle class too. Preferably through upward mobility of the lower class, not downward mobility of the upper class.
Second is, what's wrong with fascism? Yup. Let that sink in, too. As long as we don't invade other countries and don't commit any Holocausts, I'd sure like to see our trains run on time (figuratively speaking, since our actual trains already do). Without taking into account institutional racism, and without considering hostilities with other countries, which are really different issues, I'd like to know what the disadvantages of fascism are. Just asking.
Annotation to mlq3's reaction to my reaction to his reaction:
A clarification of my position: Democracy, like other institutions, has to have a usefulness to the societies that employ them. It does not exist for its own sake. Its usefulness is also what ensures its persistence in the societies that enjoy it. The moment it ceases to be useful to the national consensus is the moment it becomes vulnerable to being swept away into the dustbin of history. Such may have been the case in the runup to martial law, when the majority stood by while Marcos instituted his New Society in the name of Ordnung. In the years that followed, the usefulness of what was lost became more apparent. Democracy, after all, functions best in removing incompetent leaders. As Marcos became more and more incompetent, the imperative for democracy to be reinstituted grew. So we had EDSA. An incompetent leader was removed, and democracy proved its worth. Now, however, it has become a hindrance to economic progress, which I think is a priority to the national consensus. It has become, in its present form, useless.
A slavish devotion to democracy, turning a blind eye to the flaws of its particular implementation, does our polity a disservice. I am not against democracy per se, since it has its uses. I just want people to turn a critical eye to it, and think of ways to implement it without hindering, nevermind helping, economic progress. Indeed, retaining democracy would ensure the long-term stability of the polity, and thus provide the foundations for long-term growth. It is this simple: Make democracy useful, and it will not lack for support.
It is when democracy is worshipped mindlessly, flaws, warts and all, that I fear. That is when everything else will be sacrificed to its altar, demagogues and populists reign supreme, and the time to flee has come.
Micketymoc has a blog. I didn't know that.
Missed this guy in mlq3's comment threads. With adb and company making groupthink almost inevitable, micketymoc was a breath of fresh air. Highly recommended.
To be fair, though, some oppo posters like karl and cvj are more discerning, but are evidently a minority. Pro-ad comments now are likely to get one accused of being in (hehe) Luli Arroyo's Internet Brigade. I wish. Taking up the cudgels for this administration is a thankless job!
Will be out of town till Monday. To everyone, readers, friends, and critics alike, happy weekend :)
"Aglionby’s interpretation (in common with that of Arroyo’s supporters) seems to rest on quite a narrow interpretation of representative democracy more suited to 'mature' democracies than the more volatile polities of the developing world."
Indeed, this is exactly what we want for the Philippines and what we think is what the country badly needs.
"I do think that the person who gets off his/her ass to stand on Ayala or Edsa has a greater right to political recognition than Johnny Stay-at-Home who is prepared to put up with almost anything (of course I am not talking about a hakot crowd here)."
So you're talking about restricting the franchise, eh? And not just basing it on some form of qualification, but making it proportional to what you perceive is the voter's passion on a particular issue. So, for example, if I were prepared to die for, say, (choose any silly or not-so-silly issue to put here) and everyone else is lukewarm against it, my vote would count far more than ten of theirs? By your logic, die-hard communists would have more rights to see their views through than the numerically superior but lukewarm bourgeoisie. By the same token, a enraged middle class up in arms against Estrada had more weight than the hordes of unwashed masses supporting him. Oh wait, that was what I've been arguing all along. Yeah. Thank you for proving my point :)
"If you are not prepared to participate, should we really heed you?"
And how the hell do we pro-ad people participate? By staging mass rallies and demonstrations? Please, we've already decried the opposition doing that. It would be hypocritical of us to inconvenience you in turn. Besides, unless one lives in Cuba or North Korea, one does not go to rallies and demonstrations to display support for a sitting administration. In western democracies, I think, one would read the papers and just keep a stiff upper lip. And when elections come, vote to keep the current dispensation in power. That is the time-honored way for the majority to participate.
"Of course, one could go on about these matters all night..."
Amen.
Annotation to cvj's comment in mlq3's blog:
"Democratic and other such values aside, if i wanted to look only after my own middle class interest, i would certainly look the other way when GMA does what she can to remain in power. In the meantime, i’ll support moves to change the Constitution so that the Head of State would never depend upon direct voting by the population. In that way, the trauma Erap presidency and the specter of an FPJ candidacy or a Noli Vice presidency would never be repeated. This is how the fascist framework fits so neatly with middle class aspirations. These are the new middle class values, post EDSA2."
Indeed, I totally agree with everything you said. Just a few things I'd like to add. First is, what's good for the middle class is good for the country. Yeah. That's right. Let that sink in. We don't want a larger share of the pie. What we want is a bigger pie for all. And a bigger middle class too. Preferably through upward mobility of the lower class, not downward mobility of the upper class.
Second is, what's wrong with fascism? Yup. Let that sink in, too. As long as we don't invade other countries and don't commit any Holocausts, I'd sure like to see our trains run on time (figuratively speaking, since our actual trains already do). Without taking into account institutional racism, and without considering hostilities with other countries, which are really different issues, I'd like to know what the disadvantages of fascism are. Just asking.
Annotation to mlq3's reaction to my reaction to his reaction:
A clarification of my position: Democracy, like other institutions, has to have a usefulness to the societies that employ them. It does not exist for its own sake. Its usefulness is also what ensures its persistence in the societies that enjoy it. The moment it ceases to be useful to the national consensus is the moment it becomes vulnerable to being swept away into the dustbin of history. Such may have been the case in the runup to martial law, when the majority stood by while Marcos instituted his New Society in the name of Ordnung. In the years that followed, the usefulness of what was lost became more apparent. Democracy, after all, functions best in removing incompetent leaders. As Marcos became more and more incompetent, the imperative for democracy to be reinstituted grew. So we had EDSA. An incompetent leader was removed, and democracy proved its worth. Now, however, it has become a hindrance to economic progress, which I think is a priority to the national consensus. It has become, in its present form, useless.
A slavish devotion to democracy, turning a blind eye to the flaws of its particular implementation, does our polity a disservice. I am not against democracy per se, since it has its uses. I just want people to turn a critical eye to it, and think of ways to implement it without hindering, nevermind helping, economic progress. Indeed, retaining democracy would ensure the long-term stability of the polity, and thus provide the foundations for long-term growth. It is this simple: Make democracy useful, and it will not lack for support.
It is when democracy is worshipped mindlessly, flaws, warts and all, that I fear. That is when everything else will be sacrificed to its altar, demagogues and populists reign supreme, and the time to flee has come.
Micketymoc has a blog. I didn't know that.
Missed this guy in mlq3's comment threads. With adb and company making groupthink almost inevitable, micketymoc was a breath of fresh air. Highly recommended.
To be fair, though, some oppo posters like karl and cvj are more discerning, but are evidently a minority. Pro-ad comments now are likely to get one accused of being in (hehe) Luli Arroyo's Internet Brigade. I wish. Taking up the cudgels for this administration is a thankless job!
Will be out of town till Monday. To everyone, readers, friends, and critics alike, happy weekend :)
posted by Demosthenes at 6:05 PM
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